Engineering Community Team/Meetings/2013-11-12

Engineering Community team IRC meeting

ECT IRC meeting at 17:00 UTC via #wikimedia-meetbot ^connect

Meeting notes and IRC logs. (Backup copy)

Topics:

This is a backup copy. The original files can be found here.

Meeting started by qgil at 17:02:11 UTC (full logs).

Meeting summary

Welcome to the monthly Engineering Community team meeting (qgil, 17:02:24)
1. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Engineering_Community_Team/Meetings#2013-11-12 (qgil, 17:02:40)
2. https://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot (qgil, 17:03:06)
FOSS Outreach Program for Women (qgil, 17:04:36)
1. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Outreach_Program_for_Women/Round_7 (qgil, 17:04:49)
2. http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-November/073049.html (qgil, 17:05:41)
3. We have 13 candidates and a week to assess them (qgil, 17:09:20)
4. Some projects still have one mentor only. We will do our best to find a co-mentor for those projects with a strong candidate (qgil, 17:09:39)
5. HELP: Comments are welcome in the related discussion pages. (qgil, 17:15:15)
Google Code-in (qgil, 17:16:11)
1. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Google_Code-in (qgil, 17:16:24)
2. Currently 43 Wikimedia GCI tasks are in Google Melange (andre__, 17:17:00)
3. We want to have more than 75 tasks by Monday (andre__, 17:18:04)
4. HELP: Please help and read https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Google_Code-in#Mentors.27_corner how to become a mentor! (andre__, 17:18:16)
5. background: we want to avoid hardcoding help instructions in tasks in order to a) have flexibility improving those instructions and b) avoid having to edit the same text in 20 tasks (qgil, 17:21:04)
6. HELP: We need more Google Code-in mentors! Many mentors picking a few tasks scales a lot better that a few mentors in charge of many tasks. (qgil, 17:29:56)
7. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Engineering_Community_Team/Meetings#2013-11-12 has no more points, but you are welcome to propose topics here and now. (qgil, 17:31:28)
ECT Quarterly Review highlights (qgil, 17:33:07)
1. Demoting QA goals. This would be one big change in our priorities. (qgil, 17:34:31)
2. Promoting project management tools goals (qgil, 17:35:49)
3. https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1YZJTJEa3IE0vlBhUe1pwKxwPe_4w8Y7QB3eE-n5mUhg/edit?usp=sharing (qgil, 17:37:16)
Next ECT IRC meeting (qgil, 17:44:05)
1. The next ECT IRC meeting will be hosted on Tuesday, November 10, here at #wikimedia-meetbot (qgil, 17:44:47)

Meeting ended at 17:45:19 UTC (full logs).

Action items

(none)

People present (lines said)

qgil (110)
andre__ (30)
guillom (7)
arrbee (5)
brion (4)
meetbot-wm` (2)

Generated by MeetBot 0.1.4.

wikimedia-meetbot log

17:02:11 <qgil> #startmeeting
17:02:11 <meetbot-wm`> Meeting started Tue Nov 12 17:02:11 2013 UTC.  The chair is qgil. Information about MeetBot at https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/46377.
17:02:11 <meetbot-wm`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:02:24 <qgil> #topic Welcome to the monthly Engineering Community team meeting
17:02:33 <qgil> You can find more information about this meeting and our work at
17:02:40 <qgil> #link https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Engineering_Community_Team/Meetings#2013-11-12
17:02:49 <qgil> This is our first meeting using MeetBot.
17:02:55 <andre__> reminder pasted.
17:02:59 <qgil> If you are not familiar with this system, please take a look at the "Commands for everyone" at
17:03:06 <qgil> #link https://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
17:03:24 <qgil> If you have any questions about MeetBot, now it's a good chance to ask
17:04:13 <qgil> Alright...
17:04:30 <qgil> Then, let's move to the first point of the agenda
17:04:36 <qgil> #topic FOSS Outreach Program for Women
17:04:49 <qgil> #link https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Outreach_Program_for_Women/Round_7
17:05:05 <qgil> Yesterday was the deadline for OPW candidates
17:05:19 <qgil> I actually sent a summary to wikitech-l, let me fech it
17:05:41 <qgil> #link http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-November/073049.html
17:06:03 <qgil> We have 13 candidates and a week to assess them
17:06:42 <qgil> During this week, we will go through each candidate, checking their availability (this is a full-time internship) and their skills
17:07:11 <qgil> Some projects still have one mentor only. We will do our best to find a co-mentor for those projects with a strong candidate
17:07:31 <qgil> Then , next Monday, we will communicate our list of recommended candidates to the OPW organizers (the GNOME Foundation)
17:07:57 <qgil> and after that we might get additional candidates recommended from other projects and/or additional slots funded by a sponsor
17:08:18 <qgil> Currently the WMF has budget to fund up to 8 interns
17:08:35 <qgil> Honestly, I don't think we will need more slots than that, but we'll see.
17:08:51 <qgil> This is the summary. Any questions or comments?
17:09:00 <brion> yay! sounds like a good turnout so far
17:09:00 <guillom> nope
17:09:12 <qgil> (I should have more "info"discipline myself)  :) )
17:09:20 <qgil> #info We have 13 candidates and a week to assess them
17:09:39 <qgil> #info Some projects still have one mentor only. We will do our best to find a co-mentor for those projects with a strong candidate
17:10:11 <qgil> brion, yes, the numbers look actually good!
17:10:34 <qgil> brion, especially considering that we (well, I) started a bit late with the Round 7 process.
17:10:54 <brion> :) schedule schmedule
17:11:04 <qgil> It turns out that this year OPW is one month earlier, and it left basically no rest after the GSoC/ Round 6 wrap-up
17:11:32 <qgil> But we got a good response from new teams proposing new projects, plus some repeating from the last round.
17:11:47 <qgil> Now we will look at the quality of th applications.
17:12:29 <qgil> Alright, I couldtalk forever about this, but I better don't.  :)
17:12:41 <qgil> If there are not more questions / comments...
17:13:01 <andre__> (13 candidates is a good number, really happy to hear that.)
17:13:39 <qgil> (in fact is 13.5, another applicant filed proposal for one org but she has been doing homework for a Flow proposal just in case)
17:13:52 <brion> qgil: i assume anyone interested in helping filter applicants can go to the wiki pages linked above and find that info?
17:14:09 <qgil> In fact she started with Flow but got no quick reply for mentors, so she looked elsewhee... This is something we need to improve. Smart candidates might be the least patient.
17:14:37 <qgil> brion, exactly. We are basing all the assessment in public information at their proposals, user pages and related links.
17:14:44 <brion> great
17:14:48 <qgil> Comments are welcome in the related discussion pages.
17:15:15 <qgil> #help Comments are welcome in the related discussion pages.
17:15:22 <qgil> (just showing off MeetBot command)  ;)
17:15:49 <qgil> ok, next?
17:15:57 * andre__ volunteers to summarize GCI
17:16:11 <qgil> #topic Google Code-in
17:16:24 <qgil> #link https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Google_Code-in
17:16:28 <qgil> your turn, andre__
17:16:43 <andre__> ^ That's our central planning wikipage for Google Code-In
17:16:48 <andre__> I've been importing GCI tasks into the Google Melange system at https://google-melange.appspot.com/gci/ and Quim has been concentrating on reaching out to potential mentors.
17:17:00 <andre__> #info Currently 43 Wikimedia GCI tasks are in Google Melange
17:17:08 <qgil> \o/
17:17:12 <andre__> Some tasks on our wikipage were added as ideas by people who will not mentor (or do want a co-mentor).
17:17:19 <andre__> These ideas are now in a separate section at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Google_Code-in#Tasks_searching_for_a_.28co-.29mentor and you are welcome to take a look!
17:17:23 <guillom> andre__: btw I'll add my tasks this week
17:17:30 <andre__> guillom, great!
17:17:36 <qgil> andre__, same here
17:17:50 <andre__> If you need any help (Google Melange can be bumpy) please ping me
17:17:55 <andre__> So, this also means that all tasks left in the section https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Google_Code-in#Tasks are tasks that need to be more specific. I have commented on them to help bringing them into a better shape.
17:18:04 <andre__> #info We want to have more than 75 tasks by Monday
17:18:16 <andre__> #help Please help and read https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Google_Code-in#Mentors.27_corner how to become a mentor!
17:18:23 <andre__> I think that's a quick summary of the status.
17:19:08 <andre__> Questions, comments, additions?
17:19:26 <qgil> andre__, what is the current status of the magic system to link to help/support to complete the tasks?
17:20:10 <andre__> Every GCI task in Google Melange links to https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Google_Code-In#Instructions_for_GCI_students
17:20:24 <andre__> so we have a central place where to define global requirements and expectations
17:20:39 <andre__> or in HTML: "Students are required to read <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Google_Code-in#Instructions_for_GCI_students">Wikimedia's general instructions</a> first."
17:21:04 <qgil> #info background: we want to avoid hardcoding help instructions in tasks in order to a) have flexibility improving those instructions and b) avoid having to edit the same text in 20 tasks
17:21:23 <andre__> and for mentors creating tasks, we collect product-specific "boilerplate" text at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Google_Code-In#Common_instructions_for_tasks
17:21:42 <andre__> however I admit that I entered that product-specific text into every corresponding GCI ticket itself, sorry :P
17:21:47 <qgil> andre__, I see that we have general instructions. I suggested to have category-specific instructions but...
17:21:55 <qgil> Not even my category has them yet.  :)
17:22:33 <andre__> Maybe I misunderstood that part, I linked only to global instructions so far. Didn't want to link to two sections on the same wikipage :)
17:22:37 <qgil> Anyway, something perhaps to think about, although the flexibility we have designed will help us improving on the go based on the students'feedback
17:22:38 <andre__> but definitely worth to think of for next time
17:22:53 <qgil> andre__, no worries, the general instructions say
17:23:08 <qgil> "Each category of tasks has further instructions." :)
17:23:11 <andre__> It's only commented on the wikipage, but I've also added already a better structured format to define tasks that would make it easier to mass-import next time
17:23:21 <qgil> recurrence, you gotta love it
17:23:24 <andre__> ...Google's CSV importer is slightly buggy :-/
17:23:58 <qgil> Good! Yes, many lessons learned are expected, and welcomed.
17:24:52 <andre__> yeah :)
17:25:21 <qgil> Anything else about GCI? Questions / feedback?
17:25:40 <guillom> The plan looks sound :)
17:26:12 <qgil> GCI will start on the 18th. According to all forecasts, next Tuesday we are going to be busy as hell with GCI alone
17:26:22 <andre__> very likely
17:26:40 <andre__> plus students will claim and unclaim tasks. it'll be like a bazaar...
17:26:44 <guillom> actually, I have one question
17:26:45 <qgil> All mentors and especially we EC team are encouraged to plan accordingly
17:27:07 <guillom> Do we expect an avalanche of students, or will we need to advertise with a blog post / social media etc.?
17:27:32 <guillom> Or both, i.e. the former first, then the latter?
17:27:59 <qgil> If I have to trust Google and GCI mentors from previous years, it is going to be a huge mess in the first two weeks without any need for extra advertizing
17:28:06 <guillom> ok
17:28:33 <qgil> then things start settling down: students are more familiar with GCI and your organization, some focus in your projects, some leave and focus in others...
17:28:40 <andre__> advertising to potential *mentors* is welcome though :D
17:28:57 <qgil> the next (good to have) problem is to come up with new tasks as current tasks are being completed
17:29:11 <qgil> YES, I also worry more about mentors than about students
17:29:56 <qgil> #help We need more Google Code-in mentors! Many mentors picking a few tasks scales a lot better that a few mentors in charge of many tasks.
17:30:55 <qgil> Anything else about GCI?
17:31:28 <qgil> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Engineering_Community_Team/Meetings#2013-11-12 has no more points, but you are welcome to propose topics here and now.
17:32:11 <qgil> I have one.  :)
17:32:17 <qgil> (sorry, Europeans)
17:32:35 <qgil> Or even more sorry for arrbee in India.  :))
17:32:49 <arrbee> qgil: No worries :)
17:33:07 <qgil> #topic ECT Quarterly Review highlights
17:33:29 <qgil> This Friday the EC team has its quarterly review at the WMF
17:33:44 <qgil> Let me just summarize our proposal to change some plans
17:34:19 <qgil> #Demoting QA goals. This would be one big change in our priorities.
17:34:23 <qgil> I mean
17:34:31 <qgil> #info Demoting QA goals. This would be one big change in our priorities.
17:34:54 <qgil> Reaching out to QA contributors has ben a top priority in the past
17:34:54 <qgil> quarters. We have seen some progress, but it takes significant effort,
17:34:54 <qgil> and we think that other areas require more attention from our team.
17:35:18 <qgil> Also, the QA focus itself has switched to automated testing, which is
17:35:18 <qgil> not as friendly to newcomers as manual testing.
17:35:30 <qgil> The scenario for the
17:35:30 <qgil> latter is also changing with Beta Features targeted to Wikimedia
17:35:30 <qgil> communities. We want to serve QA just like we serve other areas of
17:35:30 <qgil> contribution.
17:35:49 <qgil> #info Promoting project management tools goals
17:36:00 <qgil> It is time to define a strategy for our
17:36:00 <qgil> project management tools, including bug reporting and prioritization of
17:36:00 <qgil> tasks.
17:36:15 <qgil> Andre and Guillaume are ready to drive the current discussions
17:36:15 <qgil> toward an implementable plan.
17:36:26 <qgil> This is a complex task, they will need
17:36:26 <qgil> input from the stakeholders (Arthur, Tomasz, Steven...) but also an
17:36:27 <qgil> explicit mandate.
17:36:51 <qgil> There is more, but these are the highlights
17:37:10 <qgil> We will be drafting our presentation to the directors fo the WMF at
17:37:16 <qgil> #link https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1YZJTJEa3IE0vlBhUe1pwKxwPe_4w8Y7QB3eE-n5mUhg/edit?usp=sharing
17:37:25 <qgil> Questions / feedback?
17:37:39 <qgil> (sorry for the weird format pasting from an email)
17:38:45 <andre__> +1, obviously :)
17:39:00 <qgil> ok  :)
17:39:04 <qgil> Any other topics for today?
17:39:13 <arrbee> qgil: Perhaps its too early for you to answer this, but what changes can we expect to see from this exercise?
17:39:47 <andre__> which of these exercises exactly? :)
17:40:02 <qgil> arrbee, this is in part a reflection of what is happening already now, see https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Engineering_Community_Team/Meetings#Quarterly_goals
17:40:11 <arrbee> andre__:  umm the Project Management tools goals
17:40:30 <qgil> We are not putting as much time focusing on QA goals just because there are other tasks consuming our time, that we do think are more urgent/important
17:40:41 <arrbee> qgil: Thanks. Checking now,
17:41:09 <qgil> But we are doing this in contradiction with our official team goals for 2013-14, and we want to sync back plans and actual activity in this quarterly review
17:42:23 <qgil> arrbee, we will have more time and clearer priorities for other tasks e.g. this Google Code-in thhat was not iin our official plans and precisely today is our most important/urgent task
17:42:45 <qgil> We believe that we can get more contributors, also for QA, pushing programs like this
17:42:57 <qgil> More details next week.  :)
17:43:14 <arrbee> qgil: Thanks :)
17:43:25 <qgil> Any other topics?
17:44:05 <qgil> #topic Next ECT IRC meeting
17:44:47 <qgil> #info The next ECT IRC meeting will be hosted on Tuesday, November 10, here at #wikimedia-meetbot
17:44:56 <qgil> Thank you everybody for your participation!
17:45:00 <qgil> and for listening
17:45:19 <qgil> #endmeeting