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Previous page history was archived for backup purposes at Talk:MediaWiki/LQT Archive 1 on 2015-07-10

Hello everyone reading or scrolling by =). I want to know why you can't just edit the main page of mediawiki by clicking edit and editing that way it's makes way more sense and it less confuses me and if i want to edit it i have to go to this page and then edit this it just makes no sense to and do you have the same problem as me?

Because it uses the TemplateStyles extension for CSS.

No, TemplateStyles doesn’t justify this: nothing prescribes that Template:Main page/styles.css has to be loaded by Template:Main page (it’s just a convention), nor that TemplateStyles pages have to be in the Template namespace (it’s also just a convention, except that .css subpages outside of the Template namespace aren’t automatically TemplateStyles subpages – but any admin can make them such).

The real reason is that MediaWiki displays the main page in your user language rather than in English, and while it’s possible to do this while keeping the source code there, the result would be complicated and easy to break.

Ah it's CSS bugs

Let's continue in the main thread on the Village pump

... we do not want "5 cm" of language links + some translation info box on the main page. We can cheerfully leave them at the bottom. It looks like we are currently facing an edit war here.

Edit war indeed. @Want I agree strongly with @TheDJ and @Kghbln that having the large translated language descriptor at the top of this page is undesirable. I agree with your initial edit comment that top placement is common, but I'm not sure I understand It was problematically inserting the bar of languages to the bottom border of the page. Can you help us all reach a mutually agreeable solution here by expanding on the problematic aspects of this placement so we can see if we can address those concerns?

If anonymus user use a phone, or browser window narrower, is language bar out of it. In header of page is only active link to language selector, but It can't switch. Doesn't that sound like enough of a reason?

Next. Language bar in bottom do link to page 'Template:Main page', not 'MediaWiki' (mainpage)

And finally. It's only temporary solution. The multilingual switch can be solved differently for the new skin if be apply.

I intensive work on template which solve multilanguage of links, because template Languages is old, and only supply element '<languages />'

I do slowly, in parts because I have to deal with the work for which I am paid in parallel. I am not an fulltime employee of WMF.

I do slowly, in parts because I have to deal with the work for which I am paid in parallel. I am not an fulltime employee of WMF.

I apologize if somehow I gave you the impression that your work to support the MediaWiki community is unwelcome. I generally feel like I should be the lowest status person in these sorts of discussions exactly because I am one of the few people who do get paid to help advance the projects.

As @P858snake says below, Perhaps we could workshop this on a /sandbox subpage first? The major redesign of MediaWiki that I was previously involved with used MediaWiki/Homepage improvements 2018/Proposal as the working draft until there was consensus that the new design was working well enough to replace the prior MediaWiki. The changes you are attempting are not as visually and structurally different, but they are experimental as far as I understand from the related discussion in Topic:Y8l01lc8uein5fng. Is it possible to work in a draft or sandbox page of some kind so that you can experiment as needed and get feedback from others before applying the changes to Template:Main page?

If we have to, we could do something like Commons does where they manually curate a list of links to the translations so that they have fine grained control over styling.

Commons has to use a manually curated listed because its main page doesn’t use the Translate extension, and thus the main pages’ titles are unpredictable. Those of mediawiki.org are predictable, so I don’t think a manually curated list is warranted. A custom template+module solution, which formats the list differently than the standard solutions, but still displays an automatically generated (standard) list, may make sense, though.

See also https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Topic:Y8l01lc8uein5fng

Perhaps we could workshop this on a /sandbox subpage first?

Do we want to fold this less-discoverable thread into the one of the Village pump?

Having one discussion seems like a good idea to me. Is there any magic way to merge across flow boards? Or should we just close this with a pointer to the other?

Sadly, just close this with a pointer. I'll do that now.

Done in Special:Diff/6463985

Please replace "Manual:Installation guide" and "Manual:Errors and symptoms" to their redirect targets, because "Special:MyLanguage" will not follow the redirection, preventing users get redirected to their language.

Thank you!

 Done Special:Diff/6463985

{{Edit Protected}}  Done

Hello, currently rtl (right to left) languages display as ltr (left to right) on the main page (See lang=he) Can the changes I have made at MediaWiki/sandbox and Template:Main page/sandbox be implemented so that these languages can display as rtl.

Thanks, Terasail

Ping @Quiddity as they originally asked about this.

Implemented! It looks like that's fixed it. Thanks again for noticing, researching, and preparing the fixes, both here and at Wikifunctions.

What is the id="lang_dir" bit for?

Instead of {{{1|{{PAGELANGUAGE}}}}}, you could use {{#invoke:Caller title|lang|base=Template:Main page}} (see Module:Caller title), avoiding the need for passing the language code from MediaWiki.

The id has no real use, it comes from when I copied the solution from the Wikifunctions main page. I personally know nothing about Module:Caller title, if it is a better way of doing things then I support it being used. I just made the edit request with the solution that I had originally found for this problem so that it might stop being a problem. (There are many ways to cook an egg and all that).

I believe Module:Caller title is better, although I have to add the disclaimer that I’m the original author it (I think I originally authored it on Commons), so it’s not surprising. 🙂 (I seem not to have been attributed on mediawiki.org.) Now MediaWiki tells Template:Main page in which language the latter will appear in, but Template:Main page decides the language it will actually appear in, which can easily lead to inconsistencies.

Link added

Although the Wikimedia Developer Portal is a great entry point for people interested in Wikimedia technical projects in general, this page should also provide a link to the developer documentation specific to MediaWiki. Instead of linking to both Manual:Contents and Developer hub, as this page did previously, I'd suggest linking to just Developer hub since it is more comprehensive and includes a link to Manual:Contents.

Proposed change:

		<h3><span class="header_icon" aria-hidden="true" role="presentation">[[File:OOjs UI icon chem.svg|20px|middle|link=]]</span><span><translate><!--T:3--> Develop and extend code</translate></span></h3>
		<div id="mainpage-devs" title="<translate nowrap><!--T:15--> Developers</translate>" class="items">
* <translate>Read the MediaWiki [[<tvar name=1>Special:MyLanguage/Developer hub</tvar>|developer documentation]]</translate>
* <translate><!--T:41--> Visit the [<tvar name=1>https://developer.wikimedia.org</tvar> Wikimedia Developer Portal]</translate>

Sounds good to me

IIUC, this is what was wanted? https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AMain_page&diff=5712915&oldid=5301280&diffmode=source

(I boldly edited, as the page is fully-protected, and APaskulin is not currently an admin. :) )

Perfect. Thank you, @Quiddity (WMF)!

If I am correct, T297019 makes it possible to blank the title by introducing the two new system messages, MediaWiki:Mainpage-title and MediaWiki:Mainpage-title-loggedin. So {{DISPLAYTITLE:<span style="opacity:0;position:absolute;">{{FULLPAGENAME}}</span>}} should be replaced, right?

Please add Manual:How_to_make_a_MediaWiki_skin to the develop and extend code section. It's a great way for volunteers to get involved!

Done

Hmm, I don't think we should link to this. Making skins is a very arduous and not very well supported area still, despite Jon's excellent work of late…

Could you be more specific here about what is arduous in the process? To be clear I think we are talking about creating a skin for fun, not for use on Wikimedia servers, which is a very different thing.

I think creating a skin should be a lot easier now with the additional abstractions, and I want us to support it better to make it easier to maintain our own skins, and if it's not I'm keen to hear about what specifically doesn't make sense. I can't hear that feedback unless people are encouraged to develop skins... :-)

This is the very top level of prompts for something a new developer might want to do. Indeed, it was inserted above the previous single prompt of working on core itself, or on extensions; it should be added to that page, not re-prioritising such a thing so much.

1) The entire content is collapsed under a single heading on the page "MediaWiki is a collaboration and documentation platform brought to you by a vibrant community.".

Solution: wrap the whole content in a DIV this will disable section collapsing on mobile and make the page more usable.

2) The talk button is inaccessible

The title is hacked with opacity:0;position:absolute; which impacts the talk tab. There should be no need to do this - the template is used on the main page not here.

Please remove this code: {{DISPLAYTITLE:<span style="opacity:0;position:absolute;">{{FULLPAGENAME}}</span>}}

Regarding: 2) Does (some of) the | #default= {{#invoke:Template translation|renderTranslatedTemplate|template=Template:Main page|noshift=1|uselang={{{1|{{int:lang}}}}}}}<!-- -->{{#ifeq:{{NAMESPACE}}||{{languages|Template:Main page}}}} }} part at the bottom also need removal? I obviously have no idea why that's here or what needs to be done.

Someone feel free to go ahead.

There should be no need to do this - the template is used on the main page not here.

The displaytitle code exists to hide the page title on the main page. Removing this code would make it no longer do that. I'm not sure in what way Template vs Main page matters, except that the rendering of the main page seems more important than this individual template page, so let's not just remove this :) Perhaps you can suggest an alternative way instead?

The main page title can be hidden using MediaWiki:Common.css - that's how most of wikis tend to do it. Mobile doesn't render the heading on main pages (that should probably be the default on desktop too but it isn't).

1) is now  Done. 2) needs an IAdmin to complete, maybe @DannyS712 can help us here?

Sure - do I understand correctly that the request (from me) is to use Common.css to hide the title from being displayed on the main page? If so, adding

.action-view.page-MediaWiki {
	display: none !important;
}

to common.css should be enough

Uhhh, not sure if that's enough. The same treatment should be applied to all translated versions.

Then I'll also apply it to .rootpage-Template_Main_page which will cover the translations

This template tries to transclude Template:MediaWiki News when there’s no translation of that template in the desired language, which is broken because of the translate markup. Either this template should transclude Template:MediaWiki News/en instead, or Template:MediaWiki News should autotranslate itself.

We should re-translate Template:MediaWiki News.

I don’t understand you. What should we re-translate? How would that resolve this issue? As long as <translate> tags are transcluded, it will be broken.

Sorry.

@Iniquity @Base Can you determine what the problem is here? See e.g. Template:Main_page/nl in contrast to Template:Main_page/de.

(For others, see context at Topic:Vsvbc8ui8hv55lws)

Fixed. --Base (talk) 17:14, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you!

Php7.4 is what I use so is there a beta version for mediawiki compatible with php 7.4

Off topic for this page which is for discussion of the MediaWiki page content and not the general software product. Project:Support desk is potentially a better place to ask. I imagine the answer will be "we don't know", but I might be wrong. :)