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User:Trizek (WMF)/sandbox/Structured Discussions Deprecation

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Regarding the future of Structured Discussions

[edit]

Hello everyone

As you might already know, the Wikimedia Foundation works on changes to how IP editing is handled: IP Editing: Privacy Enhancement and Abuse Mitigation. Temporary accounts for unregistered editors will be a new type of user account. This requires changing how the features we use to contribute to the wikis' work.

This work concerns all features, and it raises some challenges. The case of StructuredDiscussions (also known as “SD” or “Flow”) is one of them. This extension is used at a few wikis, including yours. Flow is a complex piece of software that was never quite finished, fits poorly into the MediaWiki architecture, and creates a significant number of technical errors.

We considered several options to adapt SD: a full adaptation; a partial adaptation where Temp accounts can respond but not create new conversations. All of them would take a lot of time and effort for a short-term benefit. Also, the Wikimedia Foundation's long-term plan is to remove SD from the wikis, mainly due to the maintenance cost. As a consequence, we prefer to avoid adapting SD to Temporary accounts.

We take the opportunity of the work around Temporary accounts to question your community regarding the future of SD.

Discussion tools are the replacement for SD. They are the default discussion system at all wikis. They allow anyone to start, reply or subscribe to a conversation. They provide a visual experience on wikitext-based conversations, and they cover the vast majority of features StructuredDiscusions offer.

The goal with this conversation is to respond to your questions regarding the archival of StructuredDiscussions.

The idea is to proceed in two stages:

  1. discussion pages using SD are archived as subpages. They are replaced by a classic discussion page. In this way, the most active pages will already be ready when we proceed to step 2.
  2. SD are removed from the wiki. Existing pages (including archived ones) will be converted to a format yet to be defined.

StructuredDiscussions are used on some community pages

Some community discussion pages choose to use StructuredDiscusions.

As we already mentioned, Discussion Tools cover the vast majority of features StructuredDiscusions offer, including an easy reply tool and topic subscription. Some new features, such as thanking comments or permalinking (even when the talk page has been archived) will be soon offered. Having one discussion system for all users and talk pages will unify the experience, in particular for newcomers.

It is up to your community to have a transition period: you can archive StructuredDiscusions pages, but keep them editable. Ongoing conversations will fade out, while new conversation will be using Discussion Tools. At a given date, all StructuredDiscusions boards would be converted. What do you think of this idea?

StructuredDiscussions are used by some users at their individual talk pages

At your wiki, any user can turn StructuredDiscusions on as a Beta feature. This option will be removed soon.

We would like to reach an agreement, covering your questions and remarks, where removing StructuredDiscusions will apply to all users. The goal is to archive StructuredDiscusions-based pages, prior to their removal from your wiki.

If you use StructuredDiscusions at your talk page, we encourage you to consider switching to the default format of talk pages. You can do it by unchecking the option in your Beta features.

For the case of users who turned StructuredDiscusions on but who don’t edit anymore, the conversion will be done later, along with all remaining pages, at a date yet to be defined.

What we expect from you

Answers by the end of this discussion, scheduled for mid-December:

  1. Are the reasons given for archiving structured discussions clear?
  2. Are the two steps outlined above for archiving and uninstalling structured discussions clear?
  3. If so, what is a reasonable timeframe for archiving pages for deinstallation? At present, deinstallation is not planned on our side (even if the second quarter of 2024 is mentioned), as we are waiting for the end of these conversations, which take place on multiple wikis.
  4. In your opinion, what format should pages currently using SDs be converted to when we proceed with the deinstallation of structured discussions?

If you need clarification, please ask! I've subscribed to this section, and I'll try to answer as soon as possible (probably in English).

LQT

[edit]

Hello everyone

As you might already know, the Wikimedia Foundation works on changes to how IP editing is handled: IP Editing: Privacy Enhancement and Abuse Mitigation. Temporary accounts for unregistered editors will be a new type of user account. This requires changing how all the features we use to contribute to the wikis' work. This impacts LiquidThreads (LQT), used at your wiki.

LiquidThreads is a talk pages feature that is not developed since 2014. Only 5 wikis use this extension. As a consequence, we take the opportunity of the work on temporary accounts to remove LQT from the wikis.

Discussion tools are the replacement for LQT. They are the default discussion system at all wikis. They allow anyone to start, reply or subscribe to a conversation. They provide a visual experience on wikitext-based conversations, and they offer more features than what LiquidThreads.

The goal with this conversation is to respond to your questions regarding the archival of LiquidThreads.

The idea is to proceed in two stages:

  1. discussion pages using LQT are archived as subpages. The pages left blank are replaced by a classic discussion page. In this way, the most active pages will already be ready when we proceed to step 2:
  2. LQT are removed from the wiki. Existing pages (including archived ones) will be converted to a format yet to be defined.

We have a few questions for your community:

  1. Are the reasons given for removing LiquidThreads clear?
  2. Are the two steps outlined above for archiving and uninstalling LiquidThreads clear?
  3. If so, what is a reasonable timeframe for archiving pages for deinstallation? At present, deinstallation is not planned on our side (even if the second quarter of 2024 is mentioned).
  4. In your opinion, what format should pages currently using LQT be converted to when we proceed with the deinstallation of structured discussions?

If you need clarification, please ask! I've subscribed to this section, and I'll try to answer as soon as possible.

Best,

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