User talk:Happy-melon/Templates

Draft

I have created this draft of a complete rewrite of Help:Template because I feel that the current version is horrifically cluttered, poorly laid out and structured, repetitive, out-of-date and overly technical, among many other faults. I don't honestly think I've left out anything that is both relevant and not an ad nauseam repetition. I would love to hear comments from other editors about how this draft could be improved and whether it represents an improvement on the current version. Happy‑melon 19:57, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Please be aware that I intend to license my work on this rewrite into the public domain, so it can be moved to http://www.mediawiki.org if desired. Please do not edit this draft unless you are similarly prepared to release your contributions into the public domain. Happy‑melon 19:57, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

It looks like you have left out relevant content, so it does not seem suitable for replacing the page Help:Template. However, your page can be used as a summary, and/or as a supply of material for merging in.--Patrick (talk) 10:35, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I fear that "as a supply of material for moving in" are the words which have caused Help:Template to fill up with poorly structured repetition for so long now. What features do you think I've left out?? I will be glad to include them in my revision. Happy‑melon 11:39, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Merging in does not mean that the page gets even larger. Some parts of you may replace corresponding existing content, if they are an improvement. Some notes, to start with:

• note the new preprocessor, see also my recent edits of Help:Template
• in User:Happy-melon/Templates#Pipe_character newlines are not shown at the left, and the result on the right is due to using out2 different from text2.

Patrick (talk) 14:26, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Also in the section Braces and brackets the right column contains errors.--Patrick (talk) 14:34, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Which illustrates that although tables with "If you type .. you get" look nice, they are more cumbersome for editing. An item in the "you get" column can e.g. interfere with the table syntax.--Patrick (talk) 17:28, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps it would be best to substitute the {{/T syntax, so these wierd examples do not necessitate fixes like this. It's also one less template that needs to be copied if/when this goes live. Happy‑melon 22:45, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I see that you have fixed one example. However, where possible it seems better to have "live" examples, demonstrating how something is rendered instead of just telling it.--Patrick (talk) 10:16, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I couldn't agree with Happy more. The Help:Template page is god-awful. I have added {{merge}} tags on both pages. I would suggest that any person who doubts how badly Help:Template is written compared to User:Happy-melon/Templates have a non-computer scientist read this page then read Help:Template.

User:Happy-melon/Templates needs some improvement, but at least I can understand the majority of the concepts. Large portions of Help:Template are technobabble wastelands, in which only computer scientists can understand.

I fear that I am alienating several users who created Help:Template, that is really a shame because we really need these users help in rewriting Help:Template. I need help in understanding these complex programming terms, so they can be rewritten in way that the general public understands.

The user above says that Happy has left out "relevant content". Much of the complex "relevant content" technobabble on Help:Template, not covered here on happy, can be relegated to footnotes. Odessaukrain 17:17, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Category inclusion

Not sure if this fits here, but thought I'd suggest this. In earlier versions of w:en:Wikipedia:Template messages/Cleanup, there was this text:

Note: Many cleanup templates listed below need their own minor cleanup. They add tagged pages to a category, as well as lists with examples. To disable this, replace: ...<includeonly>[[Category:etc.]]</includeonly> with ...<includeonly>{{{category|[[Category:etc.]]}}}</includeonly>.

It was deleted on 2007-10-16T02:59:52, for unclear reasons. I think it should be standard for templates that assign categories, so that we can use them as examples, etc., without having to put the page where the example template sits into the template's categories.

I realize your rewrite is meant to be more explanatory than policy, but I thought it might be useful. If this is not the appropriate place for it (and if you think it is good practice), do you have a suggestion for where it should go?

I do think your rewrite is much clearer and easier to follow than the current page. Libcub 04:32, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I added this at Help:Category#Excluding_templates_and_selected_pages_from_categories.--Patrick (talk) 11:18, 21 February 2008 (UTC)