Topic on Talk:Talk pages project/Replying/Flow

I activated it today on French Wiktionary, and didn't encountered any issue. I especially like the fact that it's possible to switch from VE and wikicode while keeping a visual rendering is excellent.

I see that models are not yet available in VE mode, but the notification message is clear, well done.

Here are some additional feature I would love: - in wikicode edit mode, option to show the rendering side by side with the wikicode, rather than a top/bottom layout - possibility to switch to "edit section wikicode" while keeping what was typed so far. Not a big deal, as the wikicode can be copied and pasted, but it would be fine to avoid this additional step and the "are you sure you want to leave this page, all changes will be lost?" message.

Have you been through accessibility tests?

Have you been through accessibility tests?

If you mean keyboard and screen reader accessibility, then there are a few known issues: T271773, T274423. We'd appreciate feedback on this, especially if you use a screen reader regularly. We neglected keyboard accessibility a bit, because bug T172694 made it impossible to leave the editor area using only the keyboard (in visual mode), but that is fixed now, so we can test other improvements more easily.

Thank you for the feedback with the precise hints to the relevant tickets. I greatly appreciate it.

I don't use a screen reader, and have no particular accessibility requirements personally. I'm careful on this topic purely because I desire that knowledge becomes as widely accessible as possible to all human beings. I can ask for feedback in canals that I know as including people with such a profile though.

Hey @Matma Rex, I was able to get a reply from someone who uses a screen reader, after a message on April’s accessibility mailing list. We talked by phone and it appears that actually even consulting Wikipedia (in French) is quite a big challenge. Luckily we live in the same city. So we planned to meet next week, and that way I will be able to help better and better understand this difficulties.

If you have particular recommendations on how to conduct this test session, or know someone or some documentation I should consult before this meet up, please let me know. The better I'm prepared, the more useful feedback I'll be able to give.

Cheers

Wow, I didn't expect that when I said we'd appreciate feedback, thanks! I'm curious to hear what they say.

I don't really have recommendations, sorry. If you're meeting with someone who's generally comfortable using websites with a screen reader, I wonder what they think about the general structure of the discussion – I would expect that the most difficult part of replying would be making sense of the nested lists used to indent comments (they're messy enough even if you're not sight-impaired), as well as the signatures, rather than actually submitting the reply.

I also wonder if they know about any of the keyboard shortcuts (in the editor and elsewhere in the interface), and whether they're be able to use the tools in the visual mode (poorly named, huh), like e.g. adding a link.

If you haven't used a screen reader yourself, it might be helpful to try one out. Windows and macOS/iOS both have basic ones built in (they're called Narrator and VoiceOver, respectively). Windows Narrator will show you a quick start guide, with the basic navigation commands, when you open it fo the first time. It's probably not the same software as they're using, but it at least follows the same concepts.

Hello,

Good to see that this kind of approach raises positive appreciations.

I can't promise you we will go as far as engaging in a discussion using this extension, since from my early feedback, it looks like even consultation might be a problem. But we will go as far as possible in testing interactions with a Mediawiki instance when you can only access it through screen reader.

Chances are good that it will be conducted with a FLOSS tool, since I found the person through the April mailing list, maybe Orca. For now I can't tell more, but will provide all relevant information I might acquire with the planned session.

Cheers

Hey @Matma Rex, I finally was able to take time to fill a report of the session we made Monday. Sorry for the delay. Accessibility of Wikipedia, a March 2021 use test session is on Meta. Please share your thoughts about it, here or on the talk page on Meta. Please let anyone you know as interested in the topic know that the page exists and that comments are welcome. That might help me to do better in future actions like that one.

Cheers