Topic on Talk:Talk pages project/Replying/Flow

Phab:T249391: Add support for customizing edit summaries for comments posted using Reply tool

Phab:T261539: Make it easy for editors to customize the edit summary of each comment they post

Phab:T261908: Make the custom edit summary functionality more discoverable

Inspired by the feedback people have shared here [i][ii][iii][iv], the Reply Tool will soon offer people the ability to customize the edit summaries that accompany comments posted with it.

As part of implementing the custom edit summary functionality, we've created a technical prototype that we would value you experimenting with and sharing the thoughts and questions it brings to mind. More details below.

Link to prototype

https://patchdemo.wmflabs.org/wikis/23fd7e0b373b74aceaf8ddec1d82ab09/w/index.php/Talk:Main_Page

Note: the link above will take you to a test wiki. The content you post there will not be published on any production wiki. You can use the wiki while logged out or you can create an account with whatever username you would like.

Testing instructions

To test the Reply Tool with custom edit summary functionality implemented, please follow these steps:

1. Visit this link on a desktop: https://patchdemo.wmflabs.org/wikis/23fd7e0b373b74aceaf8ddec1d82ab09/w/index.php/Talk:Main_Page
2. Click any [ reply ] link that appears on the page
3. That's it! [vi]

Sharing feedback

We are curious to whatever comments/thoughts come to mind as you are using the prototype.

Please note: the prototype linked above implements, what we currently understand to be, the core custom edit summary functionality. It intentionally is not opinionated about interface polish/presentation.

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i. Topic:Vngx5h94ybo4l7no

ii. Topic:Vnjnk29hmod70n8t

iii. Topic:Vqbbj3k2enoa7b4h

iv. https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Topic:Vju7lfcav875rt8r&topic_showPostId=vkcpgb23gydy6zzp#flow-post-vkcpgb23gydy6zzp

v. Topic:Vsm1b7jabhboqudx

vi. We've intentionally NOT shared how exactly to access the custom edit summary functionality

Pinging the following people specifically as y'all have previously talked about the custom edit summary functionality: @Geraki, @Gryllida, @Mar(c), @Pelagic, @LittleGun, @Ad Huikeshoven, @MarcoAurelio, @Matěj Suchánek,@Patriccck

Hi.

• The "advanced" label does not make clear about the feature that it enables. Why not just "edit summary"? (unless you intent to put more under there)
• I prefer it to be opt-out than opt-in.
• It does not stay enabled, you must press "advanced" on every reply.

I agree with Geraki, at all points

I guess "advanced" will be filled wit other settings, but I think edit summary can be open per default, or at least have its own link.

Once opened it was really good. Intuitative and discreet.

I also agree with Geraki, at all points and with LittleGun. Opt-out would be great. And what about opt-in for all wikis?

And what about opt-in for all wikis?

@Patriccck, can you elaborate? In this context, are you asking a question like, "Why isn't the Reply Tool available as an opt-in feature at all wikis?"

Yes, @PPelberg (WMF). I think, that now can be Reply tool avabile at all wikis as opt-in.

The "Advanced" menu also contains the "Watch this page" checkbox in this prototype (which is only available when you're logged in).

@Geraki, @LittleGun and @Patriccck, this is great feedback; thank you for writing back so quickly. A couple responses to the comments y'all shared and a resulting question below.

Questions

It does not stay enabled, you must press "advanced" on every reply.

@Geraki, @LittleGun and @Patriccck: can you say more here? How did you expect the tool to behave?

Responses to comments

The "advanced" label does not make clear about the feature that it enables.

I agree with the above. With this said, we think it is reasonable to assume the following: People expecting to customize the edit summary/commit message that accompanies the comment they are writing will be likely to look around the tool, notice the "Advanced" link and become curious enough to click it and ultimately discover the edit summary functionality.

If you see faults in this logic, we'd be keen to hear.

Note: we shared this thinking in a bit more detail on Phabricator here: T249391#6361753.

Why not just "edit summary"? (unless you intent to put more under there)

As @Matma Rex mentioned, the link is titled "Advanced" because it contains other functionality besdies the custom summary field.

I prefer it to be opt-out than opt-in.

If It would be accurate for me to understand that by "opt-out" you mean you think the edit summary functionality should be visible to all users by default, then a couple of thoughts:

• We do not see authoring a "custom" edit summary as a required part of the commenting experience
• As such, we do not think exposing this functionality to all users by default is worth the confusion it could lead newer contributors to experience.

Can you say more here? How did you expect the tool to behave?

I think, that great would be button "Show field for edit summary every time" or settings icon in the Reply tool or in user preferences. Some users probably could want use custom edit summary every time and this could save unnecessary extra clicks on "Advanced".

Thank you for explaining this, @Patriccck. I've created a task for us to talk about how this might be implemented: T261539.

Note: I created a new task for this rather than incorporating it into the original task (T249391) because doing so will help us get the baseline functionality deployed more quickly.

I'm a little puzzled by "edit summary" described as "advanced" (feature) as well. In the usual context of edit summary, it is one of the basic features users are taught to use at the beginning of their on-wiki experience. (Same with "watch this page".) However:

We do not see authoring a "custom" edit summary as a required part of the commenting experience
As such, we do not think exposing this functionality to all users by default is worth the confusion it could lead newer contributors to experience.

I'm fine with this reasoning.

We appreciate you trusting this logic. Let's see what happens.

I'm fine with this reasoning.

I agree.

Can you say more here? How did you expect the tool to behave?

(I am sorry, I do not understand how you get the green highlight; Patriccck fixed)

I do see edit summary as part of the commenting experience. So what I expected was to see it open and editable beneath the comment edit area.

But maybe I am wrong, and it is confusing to beginners.

Still, I would like it being a separate link "Open edit summary" when not visible, and "close edit summary" visible. Not under advanced. I also would like to be able to "pin it", making it always visible as an personal customization.

But the most important thing is to have it at all. To me it is worth a few clicks to change the edit summary.

But maybe...it is confusing to beginners.

We appreciate you being open to experimenting. We could be wrong as well. I like that we're trying something and learning together.

I also would like to be able to "pin it", making it always visible as an personal customization.

Understood. Here is the task where we will think about this functionality: phab:T261539.

I would like it being a separate link "Open edit summary" when not visible, and "close edit summary" visible. Not under advanced

After deploying this functionality, it could turn out that people seeking to customize the edit summary that accompanies the comment they are writing do *not* engage with the "Advanced" link.

If this ends up being true, we ought to prioritize making it easier for people to discover this functionality.

@LittleGun Just use {{Tq|1=example}} for the green highlight.

If there's disagreement about whether "Advanced" conveys the right impression, how about "More"?

Better. Maybe advanced is a better wording för future features. Currently "more" is a good suggestion.

IP was me logged out. Sorry.

Feedback from Czech Wikipedia: Advanced user (sysop) didn't know that he can add custom summary because of "hided" field. And I agree with him, it isn't easy to find it.

This user use custom edit summaries because of some "jokes, hints and pings" as he wrote. He also wrote: "I can't do it there [using Discussion tools]".

It is also wanted by more people at Swedish Wikipedia, and one who like to remove edit summarie completely from discussions. As the discussion should speak for itself. But I do not think that is the reason to hide edit summary in advanced. There can also be found code for expanding edit summary. Code was created by user Nirmos. I use that and really like it. Here is the link to discussion and code: Svara-funktionen "Diskussionsverktygs" redigeringskommentar

@LittleGun, @Patriccck and @Pelagic: thank you for adding this feedback here and sharing what people are saying on your home wikis.

I've add these comments to the description of the ticket where we're we'll consider making the Comment summary functionality more discoverable: T261908.

I should note: we have not yet planned to prioritize work on this. Reason being: we'd like to minimize the likelihood that the affordance could become a distraction to Junior Contributors and we are assuming that Senior Contributors will discover the functionality, be it on their own or through talking to peers on-wiki as seems to be happening to some extent now.

With all of the above said, we hear you ^[1] that once you do discover the Comment summary functionality, it can be annoying to have to click Advanced with each use to reveal it. It's with this in mind that in the next couple of weeks you'll notice that the Reply Tool will "remember" whether you want the Advanced "shelf" open or not each time you use the tool. The work to implement this will happen in this ticket: T261539.

Great! I would prefer to actively set it, like "pinning". But that may be a generation thing.

It works now! Great!

The parrot inside me: Still, I do not like that it is hidden under "Advanced ⯆" menue. I think there should be a menue of itself "Edit summary ⯆", and that "Advanced ⯆" should be used for for truly advanced functions. But I do not know how to convince anyone that giving edit summary is part of wikipedia communication, including in discussion. It is three things that triggers me to go to a discussion page from Recent Changes: The article's subject, the editor, the edit comment. When it just says "Answer"is just irritating.