Topic on Talk:Wikistories for Wikipedia/Flow

I can't find any starting discussion or consensus in id.wiki regarding community approval for implementation of this feature? Is there any discussion about this in the past? I just found the invitation for research, the proposal for product ambassador, the news for implementation but not community approval. So, don't we need approval from community first before implement this feature?

Hello Angayubagia,

Thank you for your question. The Wikistories team worked closely with the Wikimedia Indonesia affiliate and the community from the Wikistories concept design to development, down to its deployment in the Beta cluster and now to the deployment in Indonesia Wikipedia as a beta feature. So, the community was aware of our plans to deploy Wikistories to Bahasa Indonesian Wikipedia via events (WikiNusantara 2022) and conversations with prolific editors and the affiliate. The conversations were not made via the Indonesian village pump as not all communities use Wikis and the village pump the same way. At the moment, the Wikistories is in its pilot (testing) phase, a phase that the community is also involved in using the tool and providing feedback; after this phase, we will still engage the Indonesian community to bring it out of Beta for everybody.

Once again, thank you for your question; I hope the above answers your question.

Best regards.

Hi @UOzurumba (WMF) Thanks for your replies.

“

The Wikistories team worked closely with the Wikimedia Indonesia affiliate and the community from the Wikistories concept design to development, down to its deployment in the Beta cluster and now to the deployment in Indonesia Wikipedia as a beta feature.

”

Here is my comments. Indonesian wikipedia community is not same as WMID (Wikimedia Indonesia affiliate) because not all member of Indonesian wikipedia community is also member of WMID or otherwise. So even you are closely working with WMID and got support, It is NOT meaning you guys can fully implemented without community approval first. Which is still not yet discussed or approved in village pumps nor "call for discussion" in social media platform which request for discussion timeline. Not even this discussion/opinion poll/pros n cons process included on your timeline/schedule? How come from started idea November 2021 until today not even once all of this member thinking about that? And yet you guys want to fully implemented this feature and already has the date!

“

So, the community was aware of our plans to deploy Wikistories to Bahasa Indonesian Wikipedia via events (WikiNusantara 2022) and conversations with prolific editors and the affiliate.

”

I am aware that beta feature already implemented without all or most member in community consent, just approval from WMID as an affiliate. Yes, it is mentioned in events such as WikiNusantara 2022 (with just 50-60 people) but, as long as I knew, it is just to introduce this feature to the communities (the events not just include Indonesian wikipedia community, also with other local language wikipedias) NOT to fully approved to implement this feature in idwiki.

I am still don't have quite good answer from where is the community panel/discussion mention on implementing this feature.

“

The conversations were not made via the Indonesian village pump as not all communities use Wikis and the village pump the same way.

”

Where is the proof for this statement, specially in Indonesian community, seems you know more than us?

From my personal view, this feature more like burden to the communities rather than engage new contributors, because many reasons:

1. Very few wikipedians use stories, and therefore very few wikipedians will maintain it.
2. As very few wikipedians maintain stories, they often or can contain out-of-date and/or irrelevant information.
3. Many stories on certain subjects are less useful as an introduction to their subject than the article(s).
4. The time wikipedians do spend on maintaining stories would (thus) be better spent on maintaining articles.
5. Because they are poorly maintained and have few watchers they attract vandalism and POV pushers, which is not quickly reverted. Nor even will knew it by other wikipedians.
6. There are none interconnected proof that wikipedian who contribute to stories will also contribute to articles.
7. It is more like FOMO (Fear of Missing Out) feature rather than a good feature for wikipedia, as this feature already implemented by social medias such as instagram, facebook, whatsapp, tiktok, snapchat, etc. Are we want to be social media platform or digital encyclopedia?

Thanks for your time. Best regards. Angayubagia (talk) 12:47, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, Angayubagia, for your feedback; I understand that not all members of the Indonesian Wikipedia community are members of WMID or otherwise. We reached out early to WMID for guidance and they have helped the Wikistories team connect with the community members using the best approach based on their experience.

Within the Bahasa Indonesian Wikipedia the Wikistories feature is not explicitly visible at the moment and only available as a beta feature for logged-in users only However, feedback such as yours is helpful for us to understand how we can improve the engagement from our side to make it more visible and inclusive. Therefore, we will review our communication practices , and will seek community opinion using the best channels possible - village pump, social media groups, or direct feedback from users such as yourself. Our Product Ambassador and WMID have been close partners in the process so far and we will also continue to seek their  opinion for us to form an overall perspective. We will also appreciate it if there are any other specific forums that you can suggest which we can add to our list of communication channels.

Wikistories target editors (old and new) who would like to create and engage with encyclopedic knowledge visually; it is still in the experimental stage, and your community is the wiki we have been collaborating with for a year now to develop this product. Therefore, we are open to evaluating and learning from the outcomes in every stage and exploring ways to improve it for your community and others who want to engage with content in this format. We appreciate sharing your concerns, and we plan to explore ways and brainstorm with you and other Indonesian community members to tackle some of them as they surface.

Best regards.

Hi @UOzurumba (WMF), thanks for the feedback and your time. Lovely to put my perspective here which already mention above. Still not all my questions above got answer from you & the team. This WMF communication approach is the example and proofing that i need to retired sooner than i thought. How come you just got 15 people in your research (7 people even just edit once or twice a year) and get conclusion that all of them represent the Bahasa Indonesian Wikipedia community itself as a whole, for example, not quite clear? From what research, you guys can already has date for fully implement this feature? This make me wonder, what else you guys pushed without community knew or approved in the past and future? Who responsible for this mistakes?

“

We reached out early to WMID for guidance and they have helped the Wikistories team connect with the community members using the best approach based on their experience.

”

What is the "best approach" meaning? Sorry to say this, it's more like lazy approach. Community have many channels (whatsapp, telegram, discord, social medias, etc), not one talk about "call for discussion" panel or consensus poll? Nor the schedule or timetable for discussion, Is that the "best" effort team can do? WMID chairman, @Rachmat (WMID), which already contact me via twitter also can't (or don't want) answer my questions, how come?

My suggestion, the needed to open the communication/discussion forum and polling via village pump or "warung kopi" is a must. You can see the community polling page here. Still you need as many as you can get or most wikipedian agreed to put the feature permanently on idwiki, usually 2/3 or more than 70% of users. You can see the table of active wikipedian for start the invitation. Let's say 100-200 invitation from top 200 active wikipedian and all stewards/birocrats. Better also using social media campaign "call for discussion" and personal approach/message in each wikipedian talk pages, using all forums available, you can ask for help with WMID. After all of this process valid and most of wikipedian agreed, then you can put it on as per date you want. It takes not more than 1 month if this process already prepared. See this for example.

• 1 week "call for discussion" on all forums available, social medias campaign, personal messages, etc
• 2 weeks "discussion process", pros and cons, benefit or problems, all mentioned here. Report also needed for all process.
• 1-2 weeks "polling"
• 1 week "decision"/final statement.

But thanks for your time btw. I am speechless. Angayubagia (talk) 01:24, 2 September 2022 (UTC)